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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 23289	Posted - 2015.03.22 11:54:25 - [1] - Quote James Vakarian wrote: If the question is if high sec is safe, the answer is nowhere is safe if you play stupid. a week old and I already know this. Just some things to think about. You've learnt more in a week than some players have in years. Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 23307	Posted - 2015.03.23 01:50:17 - [2] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Dude, do you see the anti ganking types on here reacting like Vampires who just won an all expenses paid vaction....to the Sun Some of them have spent so much time on their knees praying at the altar of "think of the children" that they see CCP Rise shattering their illusions as heresy of the worst kind. Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 23307	Posted - 2015.03.23 02:20:04 - [3] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: I don't think I have ever been suicide ganked. I have been in High Sec corps under war decs. You and me both. Quote: People jumping, leaving, logging off, quitting because they can't fight back. Can't, or won't? There's a big difference, I got my first kill assist within 4 weeks of playing. Our Newbie corp got wardecced, because we were newbies some of our opponents thought that they'd be fine doing some PvE, we caught one of them doing so and blobbed his Domi in frigates, he got all kinds of butthurt about it. Quote: People getting into their first battleships then getting ganked in horrible T1 fits. Which proves the point that bigger isn't always better, especially if the player is clueless about fits and game mechanics. Quote: So, yeah, the 15 days scope does not cover enough of the "newbie" stage for me to accept what they are saying. I must admit I'd be interested to see the same study done over 30, 60 and 90 days, just to see if the stats change significantly. Kaarous Aldurald wrote: I clicked on that fully expecting a 40k heresy reference. Happy now? Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 23310	Posted - 2015.03.23 02:28:01 - [4] - Quote Steppa Musana wrote: The usual derogatory claptrap and denigration of people I don't agree with If you want to be taken seriously try posting something that doesn't label people as autistic simply because they are from external gaming communities. The only thing you're succeeding in doing is making yourself look like a prejudiced fool. You use entirely too many words to say nothing of any value. Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 23312	Posted - 2015.03.23 02:52:55 - [5] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: BS he does. He isn't the one that has tried to imagine that this is somehow wrong because it doesn't reinforce and confirm someone else's bias, no matter which side of this endless debate they sit on. I think that CCP Rise knew exactly what reaction his presentation would get, hence his questions to the audience at the start and the overall tone of it. As a CCP employee he has to be impartial, and I think he did that admirably. Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 23318	Posted - 2015.03.23 03:44:12 - [6] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: The report shows nothing about the value of ganking/wardeccs/awoxxing, etc... All these things do is encourage social isolation and boredom in highsec. In your opinion. Although I am in a one man tax evasion corp and mainly play solo I extensively socialise with others, including those that see the playstyle I partake in as that of prey. You on the other hand are a social pariah. Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 23319	Posted - 2015.03.23 04:21:40 - [7] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Oh Jonah, welcome back friend. We have missed your 1 man personal attack and forum rule breaking show. Well played, sir. Kindly point out where I've broken the forum rules or personally attacked you. I don't know anybody amongst my ingame friends, PvE and PvP players alike that would associate with you willingly, that makes you a social pariah as far as I'm concerned. Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 23347	Posted - 2015.03.24 21:53:25 - [8] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Well I almost quit out of boredom, after running L4s solo in a crummy maelstrom. The game offered no guidance about getting into incursions, group PvE, nullsec, etc... It's never too late to quit, can I have your stuff when you do? There's a reason it's called a sandbox game, unlike most games, Eve is not progression based, the game doesn't direct you to content, it's up to you to find it or make your own. Quote: In fact the wardecc mechanics actively encouraged social isolation and boredom. Talk about broken. This is your opinion, not a fact. I addressed this particular opinion elsewhere in this thread. If it was a fact then those people that socialise in public chat channels would be a figment of your imagination, which is worrying. Quote: This game should not be just for those who seek to be part of nullsec politics. There should absolutely be the ability for new players to form a casual highsec PvE corp without getting beating into the ground by Marmite. Good news, this is already the case. You're giving Marmite entirely too much credit, even if all the wardec corps, gankers, pirates and other belligerent undesirables of highsec declared peace and banded together it would still be possible for new players to form a casual highsec PvE corp without getting beating into the ground by Marmite. Quote: The inability to do that leads to social isolation, boredom and quitting. Your inability, not anybody elses. Quote: We need a game for everyone, not just a few diehards. If it attracts people such as yourself? No we don't. Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 23348	Posted - 2015.03.24 22:05:43 - [9] - Quote Syn Shi wrote: Aren't those stats from the same person who said "these stats say Battleships are fine". Only for the reddit community to rip them apart to show something else.........funny thing stats.....specially when you already have an answer in mind and just need to mold the stats to fit. Yeah, you didn't watch the presentation did you? CCP were as surprised at what the study revealed as at least 50% of the audience. Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 23348	Posted - 2015.03.24 23:09:15 - [10] - Quote [offtopic]Sibyyl I hope you took a screenshot of the red headed avatar you were sporting yesterday, it was cracking.[/offtopic] Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.

Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 23366	Posted - 2015.03.25 22:44:45 - [11] - Quote Kaely Tanniss wrote: Wait...what? What do you mean the Easter bunny isn't real? What will I tell my children....since facts are unacceptable. Quote: GÇ£YOU HAVE TO START OUT LEARNING TO BELIEVE THE LITTLE LIES. "So we can believe the big ones?" YES. JUSTICE. MERCY. DUTY. THAT SORT OF THING.GÇ¥ GÇò Terry Pratchett, Hogfather Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 23392	Posted - 2015.04.01 22:09:06 - [12] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: Blah. There is data, which can be turned into information and there is propeganda. Guess which one you are clutching to your breast and screaming that it is the truth? So CCP Rise's presentation was propaganda? I'm pretty sure CCP leave propaganda to the marketing department to screw up. We're trusting CCP Rise's presentation to be an accurate reflection of the current state of affairs, as a CCP employee his factual presentation should be regarded as authoritative regardless of what it said. If it had said the exact opposite then I'm pretty sure that many among the criminal and merc elements in highsec would be looking to change their playstyle slightly to accommodate CCPs wish for newbie retention. They've got to be the right type of newbies obviously; we don't want to be invaded by people thinking it's WoW in space, they can get bent. Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 23399	Posted - 2015.04.02 08:00:42 - [13] - Quote Azda Ja wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: Even one reasonable counter argument. Not personal insults or anything, just the topic and the data presented for the purpose it was presented. Now now Scipio, let's be reasonable here. This is GD, being reasonable has no place here Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 23408	Posted - 2015.04.02 19:31:19 - [14] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera[/quote wrote: Yes, a bad hypothesis. CCP are in a far better position to judge whether or not their study was valid than you are. Quote: Why not simply asked newbies that are 15 day olds, "Why are you quitting?" (I don't mean this directly. I mean look at wider factors rather than assume it is because of ganking.) I'd hazard a guess that they concentrated on ganking because "ganking drives away new players" appears to be a popular belief among their current subscribers, IIRC 80+% of the audience confirmed this belief when CCP Rise asked his opening questions. Player retention is very high on CCP's agenda, as such I would assume that they're looking at many factors, ganking included, that may drive prospective subscribers away. For example they already know that the NPE leaves a lot to be desired as evidenced by the work that they're doing to improve it. TL;DR give CCP some credit, they're not dumb and I have no doubt that the study into ganking was merely the tip of the iceberg. Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 23409	Posted - 2015.04.02 21:23:59 - [15] - Quote Steppa Musana wrote: Because that isn't the conclusion your ilk are going with. You might be an exception, but mostly your kind are using this as evidence that the griefing that occurs in highsec has a positive affect on player retention. Nonsense. They do claim stuff like this because it makes people like you froth at the mouth. Quote: Even in the scope of trial users... why are these players staying more often? The study suggests that players shot in their first 15 days are more likely to stay, no argument. But does that mean shooting players in their first 15 days increases their chance of staying? Nope, even that lighter conclusion is unsubstantiated. The study was to see if ganking and other PvP affected new player retention, your question of why people who get shot at stay longer is outside the limited scope of the study,in fact it'd be a whole new study. Quote: [It could be that new players getting shot are putting more time into the game. They like the game more, thats why they are staying. In liking the game more, they put more time into it, and there chance of being shot goes up. It could be that new players getting shot are more into that kind of gameplay. They put themselves at that risk because they dont care, or want to try it out. Its not shooting them that retains them, its there mentality. Shooting the person without that mentality will not help retain him. The right mentality is essential, I think that may be the first thing I've ever seen you post that I can agree with; looks like hell just froze over. Quote: So theres really a lot of ways to look at the data, but you have to actually be honest and not self serving to get to that point. And your kind, you and a few others aside, are the most dishonest and self serving group in the game today. Given your expertise in these matters... Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 23412	Posted - 2015.04.02 21:34:33 - [16] - Quote Eve Solecist wrote: Do you actually do this IRL too?[/url] Not empty quoting Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 23414	Posted - 2015.04.02 22:18:18 - [17] - Quote Ria Nieyli wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Steppa Musana wrote: Because that isn't the conclusion your ilk are going with. You might be an exception, but mostly your kind are using this as evidence that the griefing that occurs in highsec has a positive affect on player retention. Nonsense. Making people like you froth at the mouth is reason enough to make claims like this, even more so when a CCP case study appears to back it up. It appears to back it up to some people, but they're just misreading the data to suit their own views. I love statistics Which part of CCP Rise saying that people who get ganked are the most likely group to stay, with people otherwise killed by other players the 2nd most likely group to stay, while people who don't die at all are most likely group to leave the game is ambiguous? CCP Rise's presentation doesn't go as far as explicitly stating that "highsec griefing" has a positive effect on player retention. However, the presentation he gave certainly seems to suggest that "highsec griefing" doesn't appear to be having a negative effect. Your use of griefing is inappropriate btw, the dictionary definition doesn't count when those activities are recognised and encouraged by the developer of a game, as is the case with Eve. Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 23415	Posted - 2015.04.02 22:36:16 - [18] - Quote ^^ Sorry my bad, I derped and pasted where I should have copied, only the first paragraph should have been posted. Apologies Post edited. Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 23423	Posted - 2015.04.03 00:33:35 - [19] - Quote Darn it, bloody forums.. Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 23423	Posted - 2015.04.03 01:48:14 - [20] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: Ignoring Jenshaes weird statement. Firstly an 80,000 person study is not a 14-17% sample of the overall population. Because it is a study which includes no longer active accounts who are not part of the 500,000 population, so to obtain an accurate percentage of the population you would have to know the total number of accounts who have been active at any time (including trials) in the time period of the study. not the number of current subs. If true, this is the first I've heard about it. Would you have a source for your information? Quote: Secondly, all the database query established is that there is a relationship between players who have been ganked in their first 15 days and players who have stayed more than 15 days. Ignoring all the stuff about 15 days being a terrible timeframe to take, we still have no idea of the nature of the relationship. So to say that 'Players stayed because they were ganked' is extrapolating the statistics to say something that we have no idea on. I've certainly not said that as far as I know, what I have said is that the data points to people who have been involved in ship to ship PvP being more likely to stay those who haven't. I hope CCP Rise actually takes the study further, both in time and depth to see if he and his team can come up with some sort of relationship, which as you rightly say is obscure or unknown at present. Quote: There are a multitude of other relationships that would also generate a similar view, but for vastly different reasons on which ganking is not the root cause, but simply a subsequent effect from the real reason those players have stayed longer. No doubt there is, a further study should be able to point to them, for example joining a competent corp, falling in with like minded folks etc will certainly influence player retention. Quote: Basically, you all are inventing results from a study, and would get laughed out of any scientific establishment with your reaching for straws. Have you seen the crap some people pass off as science these days? Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.

Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 23447	Posted - 2015.04.05 12:55:28 - [21] - Quote Vector Symian wrote: It might be a good idea to give them a speeded up skill queue for their first month so as to give them the best support on their remaining with this game That actually used to happen, new characters got accelerated skill training up to a certain SP point. CCP changed that when they removed learning skills and rebalanced the character attributes to compensate IIRC. Newbies can now train skills faster than they could back then, removing allecerated training and 3 months of learning skills, that were required to increase your character attributes and thus pretty much mandatory, along with rebalancing character attributes is how CCP achieved that. Your suggestion reverses a previous decision made in the interests of balance. If it was to be implemented it wouldn't pass muster with the player base unless it came with some kind of penalty; say something like skills that are, for all intents and purposes, mandatory and time consuming. Malcanis's Law wrote: "Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of 'new players', that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players." The above applies here, if new characters got accelerated learning upto a set time or SP limit without penalty, older players would abuse the crap out of it and use their knowledge to create very effective specialist alts fast. Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 23449	Posted - 2015.04.05 13:47:32 - [22] - Quote Dracvlad wrote: Anyone who quotes Malcanis law should be ignored as a complete idiot Yet his premise has remained true, with very few exceptions. Quote: especially those that have no kills on the character they post or the corp they are in, who am I looking at.... What of it? I've never professed to play Eve for the ship to ship PvP. My PvP activities involve other areas of the game, where they do cross over into the realms of killboards and the like I take steps to not have those activities forced upon me, like not being stupid or afk. You must be getting desperate if you've resorted to judging the merits of others on the killboards because they disagree with you. Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 23449	Posted - 2015.04.05 14:23:38 - [23] - Quote Dracvlad wrote: List them, can you honestly say that the jump fatigue introduction really had that affect? Was that aimed at newbies? Quote: I can't see your activties to be able to judge teh value of your words, just that C&P know you, big deal. You look at people who make statements to assess if they have had the experience that they talk about, all we see from you is lots of likes but that can be done by people who just agree with anything that a person posts Oh man you are getting all kinds of desperate; first killboards and now my like count, what's next? The fact that I don't PvP in the traditional sense doesn't mean that I am unfamiliar with it. To minimise losses I make it my business to know how it works, I have a few kills, I have a few losses, but not on this character, or any other character I currently own. Quote: or numerous accounts self liking himself like Kaauros. You should stop, you're making yourself look silly. Quote: You could be a raving carebear for all I know, at this point the value of your posts to me are absolute zero, because you post with his alt who has done nothing in game, simple as. I'm a bear yes, carebear? Nope. Any perceived value in my posts is subjective and entirely down to the reader, personally I couldn't give a monkeys what you think of my posting. I have alts, as do most, but this is my main. Before criticising the fact that I have done nothing of worth in game you should look at yourself and ask What have I done in game? Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 23451	Posted - 2015.04.05 14:29:46 - [24] - Quote Dracvlad wrote: I cannot find any kills on this main account of yours, nor in the corp that you are in, your value in any debate is zero. That would be because there aren't any, I never claimed otherwise. Next shocking revelation please. Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 23454	Posted - 2015.04.05 14:36:56 - [25] - Quote Dracvlad wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Dracvlad wrote: I cannot find any kills on this main account of yours, nor in the corp that you are in, your value in any debate is zero. That would be because there aren't any, I never claimed otherwise. Next shocking revelation please. Enough said, anything you say is hot air. You're entitled to your opinion. Now that we've established that you think I'm a worthless bag of hot air and that I think you're getting desperate. Can you stop derailing the thread? Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 23454	Posted - 2015.04.05 14:46:00 - [26] - Quote Dracvlad wrote: Derailing this thread, that is what you are doing, all I am doing is pointing out how fail in game you are! How is that relevant to the thread? Why is my lack of killboard so important to you? Would you like to buy a weeks membership for the Jonah Gravenstein Fanclub, only 50 Million Isk from your nearest Concord agent? Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 23454	Posted - 2015.04.05 14:57:41 - [27] - Quote Dracvlad wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Dracvlad wrote: Derailing this thread, that is what you are doing, all I am doing is pointing out how fail in game you are! How is that relevant to the thread? Why is my lack of killboard so important to you? Would you like to buy a weeks membership for the Jonah Gravenstein Fanclub, only 50 Million Isk from your nearest Concord agent? You said this is your main and yet no kills and yet you talk as if you have 5000 kills, its sad, the same goes for Kaauros, he is a logi pilot flying with CODE who gank with catalysts and yet not a single kill is seen. Y A W N !!!!!!! What of it? Am I as knowledgeable as someone with an active killboard and regular kills? No. Am I more knowledgeable than the average carebear? More than likely, as evidenced by this characters complete lack of presence on the killboards, despite my posting. Is this character my main? Yes, it's the one I use the most to play the game. I do have a NPC forum alt, but choose not to hide behind it unless it's a trolltastic or especially amusing, given his name, thing to do. Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 23454	Posted - 2015.04.05 15:15:17 - [28] - Quote Dracvlad wrote: I don't want to be an arse about this (you used that word on me in another thread) but seriously mate You failed at not being an arse about 3 pages ago, and I ain't your mate. Quote: it gets a bit tedious having people like you post like you do and yet in game you have done jack. And the same goes for Kaarous and Jenn. I am not saying that I am something special, very very far from that, but really... I don't like your posting either. I don't judge other people via the killboards, I judge them by the content, quality and knowledge present in their forum posts. Yours lack all three. So, what have you done in game? From where I'm sitting it appears to be, as you so eloquently put it, jack. My lack of achievement in game is irrelevant, I'm not playing Eve to achieve great things or have people admire my killboard, I'm doing it to have fun in a game where other players are obstacles to overcome and pretty much anything goes. Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 23456	Posted - 2015.04.05 15:27:32 - [29] - Quote Dracvlad wrote: looked at your fail killboard where you have overcome jack, I have blown up a lot of pixels, you have not and that mate is the most basic assessment in this game! Basic, and shallow. Your E-peen/killboard is like religion, it's fine to have one and be proud of it, but when you take it out and wave it in our faces as a way of judging others then there's a problem. Stop it, it's not important or relevant to anything other than your obsession with the size of the E-peens of others. Judge not, lest ye be judged. Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 23456	Posted - 2015.04.05 15:34:12 - [30] - Quote Hengle Teron wrote: on the other hand, whoring on concord lossmails makes someone Saw that coming. Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.

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